gordon.dewis.ca - Random musings from Gordon


To Callright Marketing: No means no

November 11, 2008 @ 20:12 By: gordon Category: General

I just had a call from Callright Marketing who were calling on behalf of the Ottawa Citizen.  They started to explain why they were calling (apparently the Ottawa Citizen is running a pre-Christmas subscription campaign) and I politely said I was not interested and told him to put me on their do-not-call list.  He then proceeded to offer me a different subscription option, to which I reiterated that I was not interested and again told him to put me on their do-not-call list.

He persisted, albeit politely, and asked why “for their records”, to which I repeated I was not interested, wanted to be put on their DNC list and was now considering a complaint to the CRTC.  He started to respond, but I hung up.  The call should have ended the very first time I indicated I was not interested.

A quick check of the logs on my Asterisk system shows that this was their ninth call since the 29th of October.  Most of the time they did not wait long enough for the voicemail to kick in, though they did reach it one time (but they didn’t leave a message).  I’ve put some rules in place in my Asterisk system so that future calls from them will be met with a fast busy signal.

Now, I have registered all of my phone numbers with the CRTC’s National Do Not Call List, but we’re still within the post-registration grace period so Callright is allowed to call me.  Given that the lists are updated every day, there’s no reason that telemarketers should have more than four weeks from the time someone subscribes to the list to the last day they can be called.  A clever telemarketer would download the lists every day and identify new numbers as they appear on the list and call them before the grace period expires.  From a technical perspective, I can understand why a short delay (a day or two) is understandable, but four weeks is too long.

It could be pure coincidence, but I can see from the logs that the calls started about four days after I registered with the National Do Not Call List.

21 Responses to “To Callright Marketing: No means no”

  1. Squid says:

    Newspapers have a specific exemption under the DNC list, although by asking them to take you off they are supposed to do so.

    However, I believe you have to ask in writing.

  2. Squid says:

    In other words, you can register at the DNC all you want, agents of the Citizen can still call you.

  3. Ken says:

    Yes, that’s correct – newspapers are exempt from the DNC list. So when they call, you have to tell them to be removed. Writing to them isn’t necessary, at least from what I’ve read about the DNC rules… and I’ve read a bunch of them recently given that I work for an industry that relies on making phone calls.

  4. Rev Rob says:

    Well that sucks about newspapers being exempt. Gord, your posting has reminded me that I should register my own Ottawa number, not that it ever gets called and has an IVR when you do call, but still.

  5. Squid says:

    Visit http://www.ioptout.ca/

    They can help with getting you off the calling lists of places that have exemptions.

    Personally, I think there should have been no exemptions, no exceptions to the DNC list. Industries that "depend" on calls will survive if they’re doing business in a way people like. If people don’t want the calls, doesn’t that mean they don’t want the business? Other than telemarketing companies themselves, NO business truly depends on unsolicited calls. The calls are merely a convenience for the business – the product of lazy marketing departments and management with no respect for customers’ privacy.

    All businesses have so many avenues of advertising already available, why do they need to pester people who don’t want to be pestered? I wish the Royal Bank would learn this. Every time I have to call them they try to sell me something (usually insurance), and I get about a call a month. Once, years ago, they actually offered something really useful (sold me an account restructuring with a reduction in total fees!) so I’ve given them a little slack, but that’s running out rapidly.

    In general, unsolicited calls add a year to a running tally during which I will do everything I can not to do business with the calling company. So, for example, CIBC’s recent attempt to flog me an Aeroplan VISA means I probably won’t be doing business with them until at least when hell freezes over.

    Remember too, that if you already have a business relationship with the company, they can call you irrespective of the DNC as well.

  6. gordon says:

    I don’t think there should be exemptions for telemarketers, either. I had forgotten about the exemption for newspapers. Regardless of that general exemption, once the person being called has said they’re not interested the call should end.

    I’m fairly certain that I have told Callright Marketing in the last year or two that I do not wish to be contacted by them and I put rules in place for their non-tollfree number in my Asterisk system earlier this year so they couldn’t contact me directly.

  7. Squid says:

    By way of “depending on calls”… persistent, ongoing telephone solicitation by Harvest House, especially after I told them repeatedly over the course of a year that I would only accept a single, annual solicitation, has cost them all of my donations… that’s about $1000 per year based on the average of my last 5 years of donations, all because they kept calling, and calling, and calling despite my warnings.

    HH, at least, used their own participants to call, so the bulk of the money they get that way goes to HH.

    Most charities that solicit by telephone (and I think they’re exempt too) receive about 30-40 cents on the dollar from the telemarketing company. Giving money over the phone really sticks it to the charity and enriches the pond scum of money raising. Don’t do it. Never. Give directly or by mail, and never respond to charity telephone soliciting.

    Grrr… the captcha on this blog always makes me enter it at least twice. three times now… nope, 4 times… let’s go for 5… oh, by the way, there is a spelling error on the “Invalid secutiry code” dialog box. Maybe 6 is a charm. FFS, seven times? Let’s try 8…

  8. Squid says:

    8 captchas and a different browser.

  9. gordon says:

    oh, by the way, there is a spelling error on the “Invalid secutiry code” dialog box.

    Thanks! It should be fixed now. 🙂

  10. fake name says:

    Callright called me about the Chronicle Herold newspaper (I’m in halifax). While the guy was on the fone, i asked him a crapload of questions cuz this guy just calls me selling newspapers…so it was kinda weird at first…

    I’m here to say:
    CHILL THE $%^ OUT, PEOPLE! it’s newspapers!!! this isn’t some 20 year old guy telling you to sell off all your RRSPs and invest in his company’s idea….or some broker trying to sell you a $400/month life insurance plan for your entire family tree without ever having met you! This is newspapers! $1 newspapers! Do you really need to have a face-to-face conversation with someone over a newspaper? of course not! you have a busy life! a phone call is quick! There’s no “newspaper stores” so they give you call and offer you dirt-cheap prices just to get the damn thing on your doorstep! These guys call me up offering me 6 MONTHS of the paper, delivered everyday for a GRAND total of $29.90….that’s their price for delivering approx 180 papers to my house. What the hell’s wrong with that? Are you even able to say no to that? If you use the paper ONCE a week – it’s worth it. You people think you’re so rich and that everyone who calls you just wants your money? well…. you’re right! BUT – 180 papers for 30 bux? I mean COMMON! chances are if you can afford the home phone they called you on, you can afford a newspaper. the paper companies ACTUALLY just wanna get a paper on your doorstep, no matter how cheap cuz they make their money through advertisements anyways, not from your $1.15.

    PS: to whoever wrote the big article on top (gordon):
    Do you have any idea how many times people say “NOT INTERESTED?” the second someone says “HI!” in a friendly voice? Please – WE’VE HEARD IT BEFORE! you gotta give us something better than “not interested”….oh you’re “not interested”? not even a little? i bet you’d be SLIGHTLY interested if i told you how cheap it is….you’re not even a little INTERESTED in the news? not even a little—PLEASE! you’re interested alright…most people say they’re not “interested” as soon as you ask for the man/lady of the house! as you can probably tell i’ve worked the newspaper sales and companies like callright are probably no different, homes…..
    payce! i’m out.

  11. gordon says:

    CHILL THE $%^ OUT, PEOPLE! it’s newspapers!!!

    It doesn’t matter what it’s about. Once I indicated I wasn’t interested and wanted to be put on the DNC list the caller should have respected my wishes and ended the call.

    The subscription offer was quite reasonable, but I genuinely was not interested. And when I stated as much the call didn’t end as it should have. And yes, I could have hung up but I was being polite at that point since there was not reason not to be. I did wait long enough for the guy calling to tell me who he was and why he was calling before I politely said I wasn’t interested and asked to be put on the do not call list, so it wasn’t a matter of “Hi…” “I’m not interested”.

    Not that it really matters, but my experience with daily newspaper subscriptions is that more often than not the newspaper goes in the recycle without being read. Also, I have ready access to all the major daily newspapers available in Ottawa at work, so I don’t need to subscribe to it.

    And, yes, I do have an idea of how often people receiving what they perceive to be an unsolicited call say “I’m not interested”. Though I haven’t worked in the telephone sales field, I have some experience with call centres and have been the person who was monitoring the call “for quality and training purposes”, so I’ve heard how people react.

  12. fake name #2 says:

    bottom line is people….the people who are making such calls arnt out there to get you…ther not some kinda “telemarketing creature” that must be exterminated. ther just people..lots of them students…trying to make a living…but bottom line is ther people…with good deals to offer sometimes…and unless ur so sick your dying or ur house is blowing up which doesnt happen all the time..why not take the time to atelast fully listen to waht somone is trying to say…and make their day. ive worked in telemarketing..and its easy for the listener to crap all over the marketers day by telling him to go **** his own mother.. or to “get out of me get out of me”,….but its just as easy to listen to waht they have to say…and give them a genuine reason why ur not interested. like why not…….and i duno about other call centeres but the one i worked at…most of the employees have an easier time putting you on the DNC list if your polite..dont act annoyed out of ur mind…and take time to communicate..and have a better reason than uhhhhh i dont read.

    so comon people..next time u get that calll…atleast recognize that its a human on the other end…just trying to make a living….and heck crack a joke with them make their day….

    why not?

  13. gordon says:

    why not take the time to atelast fully listen to waht somone is trying to say

    Because I’m not interested in buying whatever they’re selling. If I really wanted a subscription to the newspaper, I would already have one.

    Whether I’m polite or not, if I utter the phrase “put me on your do not call list” the call centre employee must do precisely that. It’s not an option. And, you can’t convince me that it’s “easier” for the call centre employee do this if I’m polite than if I’m rude. (For the record, I am rarely rude to telemarketers.)

    If the call centre employee really wants to hear a joke, there are numerous 1-900 services out there that offer something like this or they can send an SMS message to one of the pay-per-joke services. I am not there to amuse them while they’re at work.

  14. John says:

    Mr. Fake Name-dude (If that is your real name).
    You clearly have a lot of time on your hands given the effort you have put into criticizing a legitmate posting about having the right to not be annoyed by telemarketers once you have asked them (politely) to bugger off.
    Some of us do not have the luxury of excess time as you clearly do. I have three kids (2 of them under the age of 5), a busy job, non-work obligations and well, a life. I do NOT want to be bothered by annoying 1-888’s if I asked them not to do so.
    It’s as simple as that.
    Good posting, Gordo.

  15. Zhu says:

    I sorry to say that the DNC has so many exception, I don’t find it very useful. Almost all the calls I get are from charities (real and scams), political surveys etc.

    I had a telemarketer calling me 30 times per DAY for a month in October, I couldn’t do anything… frustrating.

  16. April says:

    I have worked for Callright Marketing Services and I do agree with the people that don’t want the paper, I would say thanks you for your time and put them on the dnc right away. When we got trained there we were being told to try at least a couple of times to try and see what it was they didn’t like about the paper. I did however put the people on the dnc if they asked right away because I was once one of those people who didn’t want the paper and just couldn’t afford it at times I had 2 little ones at home and had to feed them. So if by chance you were one of the people I spoke with I knew what you wanted and I did it! The reason why you might have gotten called back was we had more then once list for each of the paper and sometime your names would be on more then one list hence the callbacks, and thats why we do state that it can take at least 30 days to be fully removed from the system. Thank for listening to me and I hope you all have a great day!!!

  17. Periwinkle says:

    My outlook on this has nothing to do with whether or not I want a newspaper. It’s the fact that I took the time to put my number on the National Do Not Call List for a reason….because I don’t want ANY telemarketer calls! Not just a select few.

    And I’m sorry, but when I answer my phone to CMS, I would have expected a response, not just someone listening on the other end and then hanging up on me EVERY time.

    I got all kinds of calls from them! All through the day and late in to the evening…..all with the same response/result. If someone had of said something, I would have told them right there and then to remove my number from their list….ALL THEIR LISTS!

    Personally, I see this as a form of harrassment rather than a marketing tool. There’s nothing good about this business practice.

    If you do a Google Search, you will see just how many people have been angered by this.

    How CMS can be exempt from the Do Not Call List is beyond me. And given the fact that they do nothing but breath in my ear and then hang up on me, one would think this is a breach of their Bell Canada contract and their phone services would be terminated but that’s not the case either.

    So let me ask you, why is a company like CMS allowed to continue to conduct business this way when so many of us are fed up with their harrassing phone calls?

    Can anyone answer this…..legally?

    • gordon says:

      Sadly, certain organizations are exempt from the Do Not Call list, with newspapers being one of them. However, if you explicitly tell them to put you on their DNC list, they are obligated to respect that. I’m not quite certain why they’re exempt, but I assume it’s some sort of archaic holdover from the days when print was the primary medium for news, etc.

      If you feel you’re being harrassed by a telemarketer, you should contact your phone company and perhaps the CRTC. Keep a log of the dates and times so that you have as much ammunition as possible.

  18. Dean says:

    This number belongs to Callright Marketing Services located in Kitchener, ON, Canada.
    If you receive a call from this company call the President of Callright Wayne Vanwyck on his cell:
    519-654-xxxx any time of day or night and ask him to remove your number from their directory.

    • gordon says:

      I gave this some thought before approving the comment and I’ve decided not to include the full cellphone number. While I don’t necessarily like Callright Marketing, I don’t think that the president’s cell phone number needs to be posted on my blog, particularly as I have no way of knowing for certian that it’s his cell phone number. I’m not suggesting that it’s not his, but there have been situations where people have posted someone’s phone number on the ‘net for malicious purposes and that person’s phone has become all but unusable because of the continuous stream of calls they received.

  19. a guy says:

    I’ve worked at Callright, and just wanted to put in my two cents for what it’s worth. The centre has a high employee turnover and can’t possibly monitor every call. As a result there is a great variation on the quality of the sales agents, and agents don’t always follow the rules. For the most part you’ll be put on the DNC list if you ask, but your chances are much better if you’re politely firm with the individual. (No, you shouldn’t have to be. But I’ve known people who scheduled rude prospects for a callback after one minute for “revenge”.) Also, every once in a while a person is not put on the DNC list because of a typing error. So if you ask to be on the DNC and it doesn’t seem to be happening, just keep asking whenever they call. By far most of the agents know you’re a poor prospect and they’d rather be on the phone with someone that might buy the paper. They want you off the list.
    Also the agents are trained to continue to attempt to sell the newspaper past the first no (“handle objections”) because the tactic works a surprising amount of the time. If you don’t want the paper but might in the future make it clear that they’re wasting their time (“Sorry, no sale here. You’d be wasting your time with me. Good luck.”) they’re likely to move on. They make a small commission for every sale they make and (almost) none of them like to push the sale. Make it clear that they’re more likely to get their money by moving on and they probably will.
    Also, Wayne Vanwyck has next to nothing to do with the management of Callright, which is kind of a side project for him. I’m sure calling him directly could get your name on the DNC list, but there’s a better tactic. Say “Oh great, I was waiting for your call. I needed to talk to a supervisor over there. Can you get a verifier on the phone?” The agent should pass the phone over without any fuss – if not just insist that you need to talk to a supervisor or verifier. (They won’t want to be blamed for not putting someone on the DNC list. Other agents may or may not care.) When you get someone on the phone get their name (to keep them honest) and tell them that you’d like to be taken off ALL of Callright Marketing’s call lists.

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